Conversation with Bartholomew
channelled by Joy Ballas Beeson
at Joyspring Organic Farm Cedaredge, Colorado,
Easter Sunday 16 April 1995
NB: Questioner narrative is in italics.
There is much talk of a departure of direct channelling of the sort that you
have done through Joy these past ten years, and other channels have also talked
that the energies like that through which you are transmitting are being called
elsewhere. What do you mean when you say I can channel you anytime that I want,
how does that relate to the overall view on channelling over the next few
mean when I say you can channel me, I mean for your support, for your guidance,
for your support, or just to connect with me - you can ask me to just be there.
However, your desire to communicate with me comes not from a neediness, it
doesn't come from a co-dependency, therefore, you know it would be actually
channelled through your own consciousness and we would meet sort of in, with
your higher self. And I at any time can do that. It is true that our energies
are being directed more towards the planet herself and the transformation that
is happening, especially, I mean all of us are working with energy in a
different way and I happen to be drawing more of my energy and attention to the
harmonic grids around the planet as many of us are because they are coming close
to completion, regeneration at this higher level which will allow then this
shift into fourth dimension . So, truly we will not be available in the way we
were. You see when, first of all, somebody who is willing to be available any
time as a channel to others means that people are looking still into the outer
for their answers. They are looking to me through Joy or through Mary Margaret
Moore or through several others in Europe and this does not ultimately, there
comes a point when people must trust their own guidance and information and stop
asking the same questions over and over and over. But there is a difference
though in channelling my energy as a way of just connecting and communicating,
not that you are going to do it for other people - that's a different thing.
multi-dimensional so you won't disturb me in my work. You really can call on me
Good. There's been sort of talk in various things about the "leap",
the "giant leap" , the leap into the next dimension, the leap into a different
aspect in our lives - to what degree have we effectively made the leap.
you have certainly put yourself in a much better position than you were as far
as being fourth dimensional and consciousness. The, what I see now is your
ongoing daily lives will become more integrated. Because of what you have put
into action they will become more and more integrated in fourth dimensional
thinking, the unconditional love, the fearlessness. When you find fear coming up
you will know. It is a warning then that there is still an area, and it may be
related to people, family members etcetera, who are still very third dimensional
in your consciousness that you need to deal with. Think of it like going through
a type of visqueen, maybe, not to say it's visqueen, but its like theres
something that you move through that you must be light enough in your vibration
to be able to move through this. Almost like a diaphragm between third dimension
and fourth dimension, and the "leap" isn't really a leap. It is more of you
spending more and more time in that fourth dimensional consciousness. Being
pulled back into the third less and less. And eventually the planet herself will
separate at that diaphragm between the third and fourth dimension. For those who
have not really been conscious enough to work on being fourth dimensional it
will be a major wrench. For those who have been working on things, just as you
have been, you have put things into action and then you keep asking, keep
noticing, you keep being conscious about where you are. You keep looking at your
lifestyle and seeing how you can take spirit into everything that you do. It
doesn't matter what you do, its more the attitude in which you do it. And so you
will have less of a wrenching. There will be people who will choose not to go
into the fourth dimension. They will choose to stay with the third dimensional
planet and learn in the same way that they have been learning. There is no
judgement about that. And then you will see that those who have really been
called, it's like a calling, have been called to fourth dimensional
consciousness as you have, that you will find that it will, it will continue to
build and build until one day you will just know that you are in that space so
much of the time now that you don't even relate to the third dimensional planet.
And eventually you won't even be conscious of it because when the separation
happens, then the third and fourth dimension can be adjacent to each other in a
sense, without, I mean without taking up the same space. It is a different
concept you know in the physics of being in the same space but not in the same
space, because of different dimensions. So some people will find it is so
difficult because they are so resistant about making the change that they will
not actually survive when the planets shifts her attention over to the fourth
dimension. And its not that there won't be any attention on the third dimension
because the planet herself is expanding and growing. So, in a sense the fourth
dimensional planet will encompass the third, but those who have chosen to be
fourth dimensional will be unaware of the third dimension. The third dimension
at this point has become fear; as well as, you know, the physical state. But
many of those who have attempted in any way will find themselves wanting to
incarnate again as quickly as possible because they will want to be involved in
the fourth dimensional planet. So whether everyone, you know, who has been
working as a light bearer makes it through the actual shift or wether they
choose to leave their body at that time and come back later - all of those who
have agreed to support the planet, to be fourth dimensional, will go with her,
in some way. And you have chosen that. And what is wonderful is that you have
chosen that as a family unit - and there will be some people who haven't chosen
that as a family units which is why you see the family so scattered and so
disrupted at this point.
know that timescales are very difficult from the sort of perspective from which
you are in, but what sort of earthly timescale do you see the major sort
its not so much time as the, its like a spiralling of energy. It's much like Joy
has to do when she channels or like you do when you automatically reach up. You
spiral your energy up to reach up to your guides. Now as more people spiral the
energy up, and don't keep getting pulled back to the denser energies. And that
means you have to, as you spiral your energy up, you have to bring along your
own shadow selves too. This is the hardest part of it for everybody, light
bearers included. It means you can't leave behind any of that part of yourself,
any of those aspects of yourself, that you have judged to be not spiritual. This
is the hardest part. So, as you spiral the energy up and as more light bearers
spiral the energy up, as we assist the planet with our energy on the harmonic
fields, the harmonic grids, then - which the grids are interesting in that they
are, they have movement, they have space, they have, in some ways, one aspect
that you would look at it would be like energy in a lot of points around the
planet. Or sometimes you would look at it and it would be like a flowing of
energy with a few places with the energy where there are gaps. Or sometimes you
would look at it like a grid of triangles where the energy connects all those
points. And the reason that we are withdrawing some of are energies is that it
is important now that more people on their own spiral their own energy up to
reach up. As long as we were willing to spiral our energy down, you see, it
wasn't stretching people enough. And to assist the planet, because it is stuck
in a sense if we do not all, either in the physical or not, keep focussing on
the energy moving up. So the more people spiral their energy up, keep moving
their energy up, keep bringing along their shadow selves (so that there is a
wholeness), then the sooner this shift will make, will happen. And it won't go
like "boom". It will be over a period of as long as several years, or as short
as several weeks, depending on the energy. Some of you may find that you will
make that shift very easily and it will take another two years before the other
people you know make it. So, it's not long though, because now as I said by
pulling back in a sense we are making people reach out. Which means that they
have to reach up. They have to lift up their own energy.
Like going in and then up?
in and up. Or in and out. However you want to think about it (laughter). It
doesn't matter how you perceive it. Some people go within and find a vast
universe in there, so they go in and out. It doesn't matter because it is not
So, are there any improvements that we should make in actually coming
to terms with either the situation in which we find ourselves in respect of that
or the fact that we have got to take some of our trash with us or
its not exactly, you cannot take your 'trash' with you. Its not about taking
your 'trash' with you. And as long as you perceive the other aspects of yourself
as 'trash', that will hold you back. So it means...
Clearing some issues?
more about, rather than clearing, it's about embracing. Embracing the part of
yourself that you may have judged as too material, or too selfish, or whatever
terms that you may have come, you know, that you have - everyone has done that,
everyone has done that at some point.
It's a form of loving ourselves fully?
And theres many ways you can do this. You can do it in a meditation, together or
on your own, where you just invite those other aspects of yourself to come in.
And imagine embracing them asking forgiveness and giving forgiveness. In a sense
you forgive them for being something other than what you have wanted to be. But
you also have to give them, you forgive them but they must forgive you for
having judged them as being something other than good. Most of the judgements
have come from things that you have heard other people say from the time you
were young. Or as you got on a spiritual path, the things that you re-remembered
from a past life; vows you took. The expectation you had of how it was to be
spiritual. That being spiritual meant that you had to be elevated somehow above
the human and humanity. And you see that's not what it is, the more really human
that you can be with elegance, with joy, with humour and laughter and love - and
all of the aspects of it - embracing it all, then of course the more that you
can be whole and move into this fourth dimension. Because fourth dimension is, I
would say rather now a lot of people think of fourth dimension as time. But
since time has no meaning outside of a space, you know time and space have to go
together, when you think of fourth dimension in the spiritual aspect of it
(spiritual consciousness) it has to do with unconditional love and the lack of
fear that results from that. So, this stage of, this fourth dimensional stage is
actually something that many of you know very well because even as you have been
third dimensional you have reached out to the fourth dimensional state. Often,
in your meditations, in your travelling abroad (out of your body), in seeking
and interacting with your guides you have been very fourth dimensional. So its
not something strange, but you have to not leave anything behind finally.
Finally you must be willing to bring it all into that unconditional love. And
that will be a very short stage then in evolution because already those who are
less and less third dimensional, less and less physical, or less and less
focussed on the physical and more and more in fourth dimension - will find
themselves already reaching into fifth and sixth dimensions and meditation and
in their seeking. You are already reaching out that way when you spiral up, you
know, you go way up into the sixth dimension. So the fourth dimension has been a
tricky one for humankind. They got caught up in naming fourth dimension as time,
which isn't true. I mean time is anywhere that there is space - there's time.
And only just to deal with a finite mind. As the mind is less finite then there
is less and less need for time as you have known it. So it's just a tool that
was connected with the third dimension and will be less and less necessary in
the way that you have used it. Or less and less important. So, the timing of it
and the lets say, you feel a sense of urgency within you . You have felt that
for some time and it pushed you to awaken certain aspects of your self. And it
will continue now to push you to bring every bit of yourself in. But the key
here is the urgency doesn't mean that you have to get it all done at once.
That's not what it's about. The urgency is in a sense more about your own inner
path and the push. It's a push, an internal push. So that push will be there,
you'll find, in a time of transformation like this from the time that you
really, consciously, awaken to your role in the transformation it will be there
with you then through the whole of the transformation. When the transformation
is complete, which the whole of the transformation will take some more time
additionally, but when the whole of the transformation is complete then that
sense of urgency will not be there in the way that it's been. So right now it's
there because you awoke to your role in the transformation. Your role on a
personal level, and out of doing your personal work, out of moving yourself
where you know you need to be on the planet, - then you're in a position then to
go as you become more fourth dimensional then to have more impact on other
people around you who maybe have agreed to go fourth dimensional but are stuck
and need an exemplar. They need some, you know, demonstration from someone else
to help them.
the role is something of a ...
...and a bridge builder, a bridge maker?
bridge maker. Not to have to do it for them, just to demonstrate.
Show them how it should be done, or could be done?
should, but that even that it can be done. You see a lot of people feel
it's not possible.
it's leading by example and within that it is basically showing the way without
actually doing it for them?
you have a role with students to do that by the very, just your presence, it
doesn't matter what you are teaching them. Words are not, I mean we could just
sit here and say nothing and exchange this energy. And you can do that with your
students as well, because you know how to use your energy. And you have known it
so well that you can manipulate energy in the past, very well. You were really
good at it. Now you have to forgive yourself for that, because you think that
that was not so good. Bring that part of yourself back in and say 'okay, I do
know how to use energy and I will use it with tremendous respect and integrity
in reaching out and touching people'. So you will send your energy out even as
you are lecturing to a group of people about something totally different. You
will reach out and you will touch their hearts so that they can then be more
heart centred, which is obviously the first step in being able to live in
its facing up to yourself and not having fear where you are
Exactly. The most difficulties that you will have is in your shadow
selves - facing your shadow selves. Those ones that you have made judgement
about as not being spiritual enough.
is there an aspect of compassion there? Compassion is a thing that I have
not about compassion. No, this is not about compassion. This is about even more
than that. It is about survival. You yourself will not survive until you are
willing to bring in the lowliest aspect of yourself and it has nothing to do
with compassion. It has to do with bringing it all together. So when I say
survival, I'm not kidding. Because if you have too much in the third dimension
that you have shoved away and denied of yourself and you cannot bring it in your
heart, you cannot find it in your heart to forgive, not out of compassion of
'all these poor beings, all these poor pitiful selves there' they were too
materialistic or whatever. They aren't poor. They aren't pitiful. They are an
important aspect of yourself that you have shoved away and made judgement
So, you talk about 'of oneself', does that take the wider view of
people that you have been acquainted with, family or whatever? Or, is it
directly related to how we feel within ourselves about those
I'm talking about within yourself. Because as long as you have any aspect of
judgement and you judge any shadow side of yourself, or you pushed any part of
yourself into the shadow and denied it, then you will find yourself still
judging others in some way. Obviously, because you have been on a spiritual path
for a long time, you certainly do not judge consciously. But you can't help but
judge about anything that you judge yourself on. If you judge an aspect of
yourself to be too materialistic, then you will judge anyone who reminds you of
that aspect of yourself. Even if you don't know that you are doing
Okay. So it's not about specifically compassion?
because compassion is almost like you are saying 'I am going to be loving and
sweet to you and bring you poor pitiful things in' and there is a level of
compassion beyond that. But maybe it's another word. We have to go beyond that
because compassion in some peoples terminology, in the English language in
particular, English, American and Australian, can be tinged with sympathy.
Rather than empathy. Compassion is almost a dirty word to some people because of
that because it's like 'yes we have to be compassionate to those who are poorer
than we are' or 'there but for the grace of God go I, so we must be
compassionate to those....' Which is not what it is about.
don't have to be compassionate. All you have to be is empathetic, you know, and
loving in a very unconditional way. You know your, think about it, just the one
particular aspect I'm not talking about, (and there are others that you need to
look at from an earlier age too), that part of yourself that you deemed not
being spiritual enough because of the material interests. That part of yourself
has skills and talents and tools that you need and want and use. That you have
to draw on, kind of unconsciously now. But it handicaps you not to have full
access to all aspects of yourself. And that was responding in a very appropriate
way. It was developing skills. And they are skills that you can apply to
anything. So you see what I mean?
bringing in all those parts...
It's a utilisation of all those resources.
There is a wholeness then. Then in the wholeness is when you are able to become
that fourth dimensional being who lives in unconditional love and not in fear.
Because when you deny a part of yourself, there is a part of you that is in
fear. In distress. In a denser energy.
in time in the fourth dimension are we effectively giving away our physical, our
physical bodies as well?
because the fourth dimensional...okay, think about it this way. If you have a
number of beings who are vibrating at the same rate, then they will be physical
to each other. Right?
If they are vibrating as they are in the third dimension, and they attempt to
see me, unless they have eyes that perceive things outside a particular range of
frequency of vibration, then they will not perceive me. Okay, that's true of
fourth dimension. There will be many people who will find they can perceive all
of the dimensions. Just by knowing how to adjust their eyes to that frequency or
using the third eye which is the one that is more flexible. But the physical
selves will be very solid to all of you who are in fourth dimension together.
Just as the seventh level of spirit , which is at the twelfth dimension of this
physical planet (the possibility of the twelfth dimension - which is another
thing in the fact that all time is happening all at once - so it's like this is
where the planet is at this time and there is this potential of what it is and
we won't get into all that because that is very confusing) we all are physical
to each other. We perceive each other. Not as waifs kind of floating around you
Smudges in the ether...
Little bits of dots... we don't care to take the same forms as we had
when we were incarnate. And people will incarnate, ....think about it when then
say in a future time, a future life, you incarnate again after this life, and
you come back; you will come back into the fourth dimension. And you will
incarnate into a fourth dimensional physical body. And everyone will perceive
you as that, as physical. But the third dimension will not perceive you because
you will be vibrating at a different frequency.
once we hit the fourth dimension, is our next challenge then the fifth
dimension, and the game continues?
does. Yes (laughter) no lazing around here.
there a differential then in what I am addressing in my higher self into being
selective in the energy that I address, or is, when I address my higher self am
I addressing it all and if aspects of it pick up on it then so be it. Is that is
what I am having, a different aspect of communication?
one experiences the energy of your higher self you have a sense of whether you
are only in touch with a smaller part of it or not. Because it's sort of like
every drop of the ocean has the qualities of the ocean but it isn't the ocean.
And sometimes it would be too overwhelming for you to have the whole of the
energy of your higher self just suddenly available if, depending on whatever
your state is. So depending on your physical/mental/emotional state you may find
that sometimes you are only touching into a certain amount of it. Its because,
its a protective device to keep from burning you out.
that in the same way as the experiences that I had in India, in Darjeeling, when
I saw an enormous amount of energy. And I have had a slight sort of reticence
from releasing my self into that situation to deal with and not bouncing back.
Is that something that I shouldn't worry about, I should just let myself go and
when I need to come back there will be .....
no there has to be first of all it's not a control so much as an awareness. As
you are aware you realise and you know it at your higher self level how much
energy you can tolerate at any one time. And that doubt that comes up is a
warning to you that says 'ooh, maybe I need to check this out here before I leap
without thought into this ocean of energy' you know, 'will I loose myself in it
or not?', 'am I capable of maintaining my individuality in this ocean of
energy?' And sometimes you are and sometimes you aren't. And so this means that
you have to be aware of your state of being and of the quality of the energy
that you are wishing to interact with. Keep always asking 'is this the highest
quality of energy, is this the highest possible energy that I can deal with at
this time?' And when you are reaching out to other beings, like myself, who,
though we are all one I am individually distinct from you... not at the energy
level where we are all one, but at the individuality level I am distinct, then
you keep asking through your higher self 'is this the highest possible energy'
you know, 'is this for my highest good?' And, as in India you got a warning
'wait a minute, this isn't something that I need to carelessly jump into. I need
to know what I am getting into' So that is what you continue to deal with. And
you do have a gatekeeper, you have a guide that will assist you - especially as
you become more aware. Ask this gatekeeper then, is this, is it possible for me
to interact with this energy directly or can you be like a transformer and step
this energy down so that I may interact with it. Or is it even necessary for me
to interact with it? You can have an even richer inner life than you do,
although some of the time you have to work right? (laughter) Some of the time
you have to be in the physical. But there is much more exploring that you can do
along the lines of the quality of energy, that you can interact with. And as the
energy spirals up more and more, and as you pick up these other aspect of your
self then it will be much easier for you to do that without being blown
makes it a lot clearer, that's right.
an embracing of all the aspects of self. So, may I say, not goodbye but maybe
sionora. And it isn't about goodbye because it is always about ...until the next
time, whenever that may be. And you know it isn't about time either.
you so much and many, many blessings dear one.
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