Conversation with Bartholomew
channelled by Joy Ballas Beeson

at Joyspring Organic Farm Cedaredge, Colorado, USA

Easter Sunday 16 April 1995

NB: Questioner narrative is in italics.

Q) There is much talk of a departure of direct channelling of the sort that you have done through Joy these past ten years, and other channels have also talked that the energies like that through which you are transmitting are being called elsewhere. What do you mean when you say I can channel you anytime that I want, how does that relate to the overall view on channelling over the next few years?

I mean when I say you can channel me, I mean for your support, for your guidance, for your support, or just to connect with me - you can ask me to just be there. However, your desire to communicate with me comes not from a neediness, it doesn't come from a co-dependency, therefore, you know it would be actually channelled through your own consciousness and we would meet sort of in, with your higher self. And I at any time can do that. It is true that our energies are being directed more towards the planet herself and the transformation that is happening, especially, I mean all of us are working with energy in a different way and I happen to be drawing more of my energy and attention to the harmonic grids around the planet as many of us are because they are coming close to completion, regeneration at this higher level which will allow then this shift into fourth dimension . So, truly we will not be available in the way we were. You see when, first of all, somebody who is willing to be available any time as a channel to others means that people are looking still into the outer for their answers. They are looking to me through Joy or through Mary Margaret Moore or through several others in Europe and this does not ultimately, there comes a point when people must trust their own guidance and information and stop asking the same questions over and over and over. But there is a difference though in channelling my energy as a way of just connecting and communicating, not that you are going to do it for other people - that's a different thing.


I'm multi-dimensional so you won't disturb me in my work. You really can call on me any time.

Good. There's been sort of talk in various things about the "leap", the "giant leap" , the leap into the next dimension, the leap into a different aspect in our lives - to what degree have we effectively made the leap.

Well you have certainly put yourself in a much better position than you were as far as being fourth dimensional and consciousness. The, what I see now is your ongoing daily lives will become more integrated. Because of what you have put into action they will become more and more integrated in fourth dimensional thinking, the unconditional love, the fearlessness. When you find fear coming up you will know. It is a warning then that there is still an area, and it may be related to people, family members etcetera, who are still very third dimensional in your consciousness that you need to deal with. Think of it like going through a type of visqueen, maybe, not to say it's visqueen, but its like theres something that you move through that you must be light enough in your vibration to be able to move through this. Almost like a diaphragm between third dimension and fourth dimension, and the "leap" isn't really a leap. It is more of you spending more and more time in that fourth dimensional consciousness. Being pulled back into the third less and less. And eventually the planet herself will separate at that diaphragm between the third and fourth dimension. For those who have not really been conscious enough to work on being fourth dimensional it will be a major wrench. For those who have been working on things, just as you have been, you have put things into action and then you keep asking, keep noticing, you keep being conscious about where you are. You keep looking at your lifestyle and seeing how you can take spirit into everything that you do. It doesn't matter what you do, its more the attitude in which you do it. And so you will have less of a wrenching. There will be people who will choose not to go into the fourth dimension. They will choose to stay with the third dimensional planet and learn in the same way that they have been learning. There is no judgement about that. And then you will see that those who have really been called, it's like a calling, have been called to fourth dimensional consciousness as you have, that you will find that it will, it will continue to build and build until one day you will just know that you are in that space so much of the time now that you don't even relate to the third dimensional planet. And eventually you won't even be conscious of it because when the separation happens, then the third and fourth dimension can be adjacent to each other in a sense, without, I mean without taking up the same space. It is a different concept you know in the physics of being in the same space but not in the same space, because of different dimensions. So some people will find it is so difficult because they are so resistant about making the change that they will not actually survive when the planets shifts her attention over to the fourth dimension. And its not that there won't be any attention on the third dimension because the planet herself is expanding and growing. So, in a sense the fourth dimensional planet will encompass the third, but those who have chosen to be fourth dimensional will be unaware of the third dimension. The third dimension at this point has become fear; as well as, you know, the physical state. But many of those who have attempted in any way will find themselves wanting to incarnate again as quickly as possible because they will want to be involved in the fourth dimensional planet. So whether everyone, you know, who has been working as a light bearer makes it through the actual shift or wether they choose to leave their body at that time and come back later - all of those who have agreed to support the planet, to be fourth dimensional, will go with her, in some way. And you have chosen that. And what is wonderful is that you have chosen that as a family unit - and there will be some people who haven't chosen that as a family units which is why you see the family so scattered and so disrupted at this point.

I know that timescales are very difficult from the sort of perspective from which you are in, but what sort of earthly timescale do you see the major sort of...

Well its not so much time as the, its like a spiralling of energy. It's much like Joy has to do when she channels or like you do when you automatically reach up. You spiral your energy up to reach up to your guides. Now as more people spiral the energy up, and don't keep getting pulled back to the denser energies. And that means you have to, as you spiral your energy up, you have to bring along your own shadow selves too. This is the hardest part of it for everybody, light bearers included. It means you can't leave behind any of that part of yourself, any of those aspects of yourself, that you have judged to be not spiritual. This is the hardest part. So, as you spiral the energy up and as more light bearers spiral the energy up, as we assist the planet with our energy on the harmonic fields, the harmonic grids, then - which the grids are interesting in that they are, they have movement, they have space, they have, in some ways, one aspect that you would look at it would be like energy in a lot of points around the planet. Or sometimes you would look at it and it would be like a flowing of energy with a few places with the energy where there are gaps. Or sometimes you would look at it like a grid of triangles where the energy connects all those points. And the reason that we are withdrawing some of are energies is that it is important now that more people on their own spiral their own energy up to reach up. As long as we were willing to spiral our energy down, you see, it wasn't stretching people enough. And to assist the planet, because it is stuck in a sense if we do not all, either in the physical or not, keep focussing on the energy moving up. So the more people spiral their energy up, keep moving their energy up, keep bringing along their shadow selves (so that there is a wholeness), then the sooner this shift will make, will happen. And it won't go like "boom". It will be over a period of as long as several years, or as short as several weeks, depending on the energy. Some of you may find that you will make that shift very easily and it will take another two years before the other people you know make it. So, it's not long though, because now as I said by pulling back in a sense we are making people reach out. Which means that they have to reach up. They have to lift up their own energy.

Like going in and then up?

Yes, in and up. Or in and out. However you want to think about it (laughter). It doesn't matter how you perceive it. Some people go within and find a vast universe in there, so they go in and out. It doesn't matter because it is not about direction.

So, are there any improvements that we should make in actually coming to terms with either the situation in which we find ourselves in respect of that or the fact that we have got to take some of our trash with us or ...

Well its not exactly, you cannot take your 'trash' with you. Its not about taking your 'trash' with you. And as long as you perceive the other aspects of yourself as 'trash', that will hold you back. So it means...

Clearing some issues?

It's more about, rather than clearing, it's about embracing. Embracing the part of yourself that you may have judged as too material, or too selfish, or whatever terms that you may have come, you know, that you have - everyone has done that, everyone has done that at some point.

It's a form of loving ourselves fully?

Yes. And theres many ways you can do this. You can do it in a meditation, together or on your own, where you just invite those other aspects of yourself to come in. And imagine embracing them asking forgiveness and giving forgiveness. In a sense you forgive them for being something other than what you have wanted to be. But you also have to give them, you forgive them but they must forgive you for having judged them as being something other than good. Most of the judgements have come from things that you have heard other people say from the time you were young. Or as you got on a spiritual path, the things that you re-remembered from a past life; vows you took. The expectation you had of how it was to be spiritual. That being spiritual meant that you had to be elevated somehow above the human and humanity. And you see that's not what it is, the more really human that you can be with elegance, with joy, with humour and laughter and love - and all of the aspects of it - embracing it all, then of course the more that you can be whole and move into this fourth dimension. Because fourth dimension is, I would say rather now a lot of people think of fourth dimension as time. But since time has no meaning outside of a space, you know time and space have to go together, when you think of fourth dimension in the spiritual aspect of it (spiritual consciousness) it has to do with unconditional love and the lack of fear that results from that. So, this stage of, this fourth dimensional stage is actually something that many of you know very well because even as you have been third dimensional you have reached out to the fourth dimensional state. Often, in your meditations, in your travelling abroad (out of your body), in seeking and interacting with your guides you have been very fourth dimensional. So its not something strange, but you have to not leave anything behind finally. Finally you must be willing to bring it all into that unconditional love. And that will be a very short stage then in evolution because already those who are less and less third dimensional, less and less physical, or less and less focussed on the physical and more and more in fourth dimension - will find themselves already reaching into fifth and sixth dimensions and meditation and in their seeking. You are already reaching out that way when you spiral up, you know, you go way up into the sixth dimension. So the fourth dimension has been a tricky one for humankind. They got caught up in naming fourth dimension as time, which isn't true. I mean time is anywhere that there is space - there's time. And only just to deal with a finite mind. As the mind is less finite then there is less and less need for time as you have known it. So it's just a tool that was connected with the third dimension and will be less and less necessary in the way that you have used it. Or less and less important. So, the timing of it and the lets say, you feel a sense of urgency within you . You have felt that for some time and it pushed you to awaken certain aspects of your self. And it will continue now to push you to bring every bit of yourself in. But the key here is the urgency doesn't mean that you have to get it all done at once. That's not what it's about. The urgency is in a sense more about your own inner path and the push. It's a push, an internal push. So that push will be there, you'll find, in a time of transformation like this from the time that you really, consciously, awaken to your role in the transformation it will be there with you then through the whole of the transformation. When the transformation is complete, which the whole of the transformation will take some more time additionally, but when the whole of the transformation is complete then that sense of urgency will not be there in the way that it's been. So right now it's there because you awoke to your role in the transformation. Your role on a personal level, and out of doing your personal work, out of moving yourself where you know you need to be on the planet, - then you're in a position then to go as you become more fourth dimensional then to have more impact on other people around you who maybe have agreed to go fourth dimensional but are stuck and need an exemplar. They need some, you know, demonstration from someone else to help them.

So the role is something of a ...

A role model.

...and a bridge builder, a bridge maker?

Yes a bridge maker. Not to have to do it for them, just to demonstrate.

Show them how it should be done, or could be done?

Not should, but that even that it can be done. You see a lot of people feel it's not possible.

So it's leading by example and within that it is basically showing the way without actually doing it for them?

And you have a role with students to do that by the very, just your presence, it doesn't matter what you are teaching them. Words are not, I mean we could just sit here and say nothing and exchange this energy. And you can do that with your students as well, because you know how to use your energy. And you have known it so well that you can manipulate energy in the past, very well. You were really good at it. Now you have to forgive yourself for that, because you think that that was not so good. Bring that part of yourself back in and say 'okay, I do know how to use energy and I will use it with tremendous respect and integrity in reaching out and touching people'. So you will send your energy out even as you are lecturing to a group of people about something totally different. You will reach out and you will touch their hearts so that they can then be more heart centred, which is obviously the first step in being able to live in unconditional love.

So its facing up to yourself and not having fear where you are heading?

Exactly. The most difficulties that you will have is in your shadow selves - facing your shadow selves. Those ones that you have made judgement about as not being spiritual enough.

So is there an aspect of compassion there? Compassion is a thing that I have difficulty with.

It is not about compassion. No, this is not about compassion. This is about even more than that. It is about survival. You yourself will not survive until you are willing to bring in the lowliest aspect of yourself and it has nothing to do with compassion. It has to do with bringing it all together. So when I say survival, I'm not kidding. Because if you have too much in the third dimension that you have shoved away and denied of yourself and you cannot bring it in your heart, you cannot find it in your heart to forgive, not out of compassion of 'all these poor beings, all these poor pitiful selves there' they were too materialistic or whatever. They aren't poor. They aren't pitiful. They are an important aspect of yourself that you have shoved away and made judgement about.

So, you talk about 'of oneself', does that take the wider view of people that you have been acquainted with, family or whatever? Or, is it directly related to how we feel within ourselves about those issues?

No, I'm talking about within yourself. Because as long as you have any aspect of judgement and you judge any shadow side of yourself, or you pushed any part of yourself into the shadow and denied it, then you will find yourself still judging others in some way. Obviously, because you have been on a spiritual path for a long time, you certainly do not judge consciously. But you can't help but judge about anything that you judge yourself on. If you judge an aspect of yourself to be too materialistic, then you will judge anyone who reminds you of that aspect of yourself. Even if you don't know that you are doing it.

Okay. So it's not about specifically compassion?

No, because compassion is almost like you are saying 'I am going to be loving and sweet to you and bring you poor pitiful things in' and there is a level of compassion beyond that. But maybe it's another word. We have to go beyond that because compassion in some peoples terminology, in the English language in particular, English, American and Australian, can be tinged with sympathy. Rather than empathy. Compassion is almost a dirty word to some people because of that because it's like 'yes we have to be compassionate to those who are poorer than we are' or 'there but for the grace of God go I, so we must be compassionate to those....' Which is not what it is about.


You don't have to be compassionate. All you have to be is empathetic, you know, and loving in a very unconditional way. You know your, think about it, just the one particular aspect I'm not talking about, (and there are others that you need to look at from an earlier age too), that part of yourself that you deemed not being spiritual enough because of the material interests. That part of yourself has skills and talents and tools that you need and want and use. That you have to draw on, kind of unconsciously now. But it handicaps you not to have full access to all aspects of yourself. And that was responding in a very appropriate way. It was developing skills. And they are skills that you can apply to anything. So you see what I mean?


By bringing in all those parts...

It's a utilisation of all those resources.

Yes. There is a wholeness then. Then in the wholeness is when you are able to become that fourth dimensional being who lives in unconditional love and not in fear. Because when you deny a part of yourself, there is a part of you that is in fear. In distress. In a denser energy.

So in time in the fourth dimension are we effectively giving away our physical, our physical bodies as well?

No, because the fourth dimensional...okay, think about it this way. If you have a number of beings who are vibrating at the same rate, then they will be physical to each other. Right?


Okay. If they are vibrating as they are in the third dimension, and they attempt to see me, unless they have eyes that perceive things outside a particular range of frequency of vibration, then they will not perceive me. Okay, that's true of fourth dimension. There will be many people who will find they can perceive all of the dimensions. Just by knowing how to adjust their eyes to that frequency or using the third eye which is the one that is more flexible. But the physical selves will be very solid to all of you who are in fourth dimension together. Just as the seventh level of spirit , which is at the twelfth dimension of this physical planet (the possibility of the twelfth dimension - which is another thing in the fact that all time is happening all at once - so it's like this is where the planet is at this time and there is this potential of what it is and we won't get into all that because that is very confusing) we all are physical to each other. We perceive each other. Not as waifs kind of floating around you know...

Smudges in the ether...

Little bits of dots... we don't care to take the same forms as we had when we were incarnate. And people will incarnate, ....think about it when then say in a future time, a future life, you incarnate again after this life, and you come back; you will come back into the fourth dimension. And you will incarnate into a fourth dimensional physical body. And everyone will perceive you as that, as physical. But the third dimension will not perceive you because you will be vibrating at a different frequency.

So once we hit the fourth dimension, is our next challenge then the fifth dimension, and the game continues?

It does. Yes (laughter) no lazing around here.

Is there a differential then in what I am addressing in my higher self into being selective in the energy that I address, or is, when I address my higher self am I addressing it all and if aspects of it pick up on it then so be it. Is that is what I am having, a different aspect of communication?

As one experiences the energy of your higher self you have a sense of whether you are only in touch with a smaller part of it or not. Because it's sort of like every drop of the ocean has the qualities of the ocean but it isn't the ocean. And sometimes it would be too overwhelming for you to have the whole of the energy of your higher self just suddenly available if, depending on whatever your state is. So depending on your physical/mental/emotional state you may find that sometimes you are only touching into a certain amount of it. Its because, its a protective device to keep from burning you out.

Is that in the same way as the experiences that I had in India, in Darjeeling, when I saw an enormous amount of energy. And I have had a slight sort of reticence from releasing my self into that situation to deal with and not bouncing back. Is that something that I shouldn't worry about, I should just let myself go and when I need to come back there will be .....

No, no there has to be first of all it's not a control so much as an awareness. As you are aware you realise and you know it at your higher self level how much energy you can tolerate at any one time. And that doubt that comes up is a warning to you that says 'ooh, maybe I need to check this out here before I leap without thought into this ocean of energy' you know, 'will I loose myself in it or not?', 'am I capable of maintaining my individuality in this ocean of energy?' And sometimes you are and sometimes you aren't. And so this means that you have to be aware of your state of being and of the quality of the energy that you are wishing to interact with. Keep always asking 'is this the highest quality of energy, is this the highest possible energy that I can deal with at this time?' And when you are reaching out to other beings, like myself, who, though we are all one I am individually distinct from you... not at the energy level where we are all one, but at the individuality level I am distinct, then you keep asking through your higher self 'is this the highest possible energy' you know, 'is this for my highest good?' And, as in India you got a warning 'wait a minute, this isn't something that I need to carelessly jump into. I need to know what I am getting into' So that is what you continue to deal with. And you do have a gatekeeper, you have a guide that will assist you - especially as you become more aware. Ask this gatekeeper then, is this, is it possible for me to interact with this energy directly or can you be like a transformer and step this energy down so that I may interact with it. Or is it even necessary for me to interact with it? You can have an even richer inner life than you do, although some of the time you have to work right? (laughter) Some of the time you have to be in the physical. But there is much more exploring that you can do along the lines of the quality of energy, that you can interact with. And as the energy spirals up more and more, and as you pick up these other aspect of your self then it will be much easier for you to do that without being blown out.

It makes it a lot clearer, that's right.

Yes, an embracing of all the aspects of self. So, may I say, not goodbye but maybe sionora. And it isn't about goodbye because it is always about ...until the next time, whenever that may be. And you know it isn't about time either. Alright.

Thank you.

Thank you so much and many, many blessings dear one.

om sign

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